Friday, 25 October 2013

One size does not fit all

There has been a spate of posts it seems recently about punishment, Misty's in particular identified her thoughts about wanting punishment, and her conflicts with wanting it.

she writes

"I'm not talking of play punishment, I want a punishment that I don't want. That makes no sense, no sense at all. Is it a punishment if I want it?"

I dont think punishment is essential to ttwd, its dependent on the individual submissives needs, how the relationship works for both.....some need it, some dont.

We use punishment in our relationship, recently i had some conflicts with it myself, mainly this thought in my head that by now i shouldnt need to be punished, and that because i still i am (albeit not often) im failing.

After a lot of overthinking, discussion, debating, deliberation and going around in circles, i was prompted to think about how it would be if he decided that actually punishment would no longer be a part of our relationship.

And......i didnt like that thought, but yet i dont like being punished!

My thoughts are that although i dont like it, i need it and i want it, because i need the security, the comfort of knowing he will hold me accountable for my actions, if he were to do nothing, i would feel like he didnt care, and then i would really feel like im failing, that im not good enough for him to warrant helping me when i falter.

So it takes me back around to Mistys comment, as quoted above.

It makes sense, i dont want to be punished because it means i have disobeyed/displeased him, but i want it for the very same reasons, i need the slate clean, for him its simply actions have consequences, and i need to repent, i couldnt deal with the guilt and feeling sorry without it, punishment removes those feelings and allows me to move on....with a lesson learned.

It works for me, for us..mostly i would say for me, it may well be that he didnt use punishment with a previous submissive because they didnt need it, its pretty much like most aspects of ttwd..there isnt a one size fits all.

Wednesday, 23 October 2013

Dear, vanilla, rant!

Yesterday was just one of those days i was glad when the work day ended, parent/teacher meetings, i was sat in with the teachers for the children that i work with, there are always the inevitable PPs..what we call the problem parents.

We are not allowed to be honest, well rather words have to be chosen carefully.

You have the "my child is an angel, incapable of doing anything wrong, its always another childs fault, theirs is just misunderstood.

So you sit and try carefully to explain that their child can be quite aggressive to other children, using inappropriate language, and how can we work together to change this behaviour...and the response "oh, no, not my child, he/she is not like that at home, its other children telling tales, you should pay more attention to what the others are doing instead of blaming my little darling, they bully him because he is so sensitive"

Ahem..yes cough...splutter.  Dear parent, your child is a spoilt, undisciplined bully, that clearly has indulgent parent(s) that gives into their every whim rather than say no.

Nope not allowed to say that.

One poor teacher had a father get very aggressive with her, shouting and stabbing his finger into her chest, because he couldnt understand why his daughter was struggling with school work, why she is has been on the same reading level for months, exclaiming the incompetence of the school, the teacher, they are interested in whats going on with their child but will not listen to advice on how to help.

Dear parent, she is a lovely child, perhaps if you made the time to read her school book with her which she brings home every night, but it comes back to school every day unread (even twice a week  would be of benefit), perhaps you could take 10 mins out of your time to help her with her homework which is set once a week....oh but then its never brought back fact the sheet that was given out in the first week back in September has not been seen since...maybe even help her with her spellings, its only 5 words a week!

Nope not allowed to say that.

Then you have the pushy parent(s), these are the ones that have great expectations of their child and failure on the childs part to meet these expectations are met with disappointment, the child is pushed hard, anything less than 100% is not acceptable, they want their child pushed harder, more homework, they dont come to school to have fun!

Dear parent, your child is 7 years old, they are not doing a degree, let them have a childhood its short enough as it is, the pressure your putting your child under is heartbreaking, the get distressed if they get something wrong, usually because they know they face your disappointment.

Nope not allowed to say that.

Ahh the "its so much effort" parents, you have to make sure they have the first appointment so you can catch them as soon as the school day is over, even then its a huge effort "well make it quick, im busy", there not really interested in how their child is getting on, its the schools job to educate them, not ours, what they get up to at school has nothing to do with us.  They dont attend school functions, plays etc, and its probably best to make the most of what little input they have because as soon as the child reaches the juniors and doesnt need to be met at the wont see them again unless its absolutely essential...and they will moan at the inconvenience.

Dear parent, i appreciate you may well have a busy life, but if your going to have children, make time for them, your child will thrive so much better if they have your support and interest...and its nice for them to have their parents see them at school plays, sports day's...and its heartbreaking for us to see their faces fill with disappointment when they are looking out for mummy and/or  daddy....and they are never there.

But nope not allowed to say that.

Thankfully these parents are the minority, most generally are interested, they want to know how their child behaves, how they are getting on, do they need help, what can they do etc etc

Generally the ones that moan about the school or the teacher are the parents that fit into one or the above categories.

Tuesday, 22 October 2013

Hello down there, are you listening?

I can understand why many people dont understand it, i couldnt understand for a long time, still not sure i really do 'get it'...i just deal with it better now.

"whole other story" of struggling with masochism.

In the earlier days it used to bother me a lot that i would respond so well to not just s/m but also humiliation, what bothered me the most is when my pussy would get so very wet but yet every other part of me, didnt want it, the bitch down there would betray me, still does every time.

I would get so infuriated with Master because i couldnt seem to get through to him that i really didnt like what was happening,  he would simply feel between my legs, hold up soaking wet fingers, look at me and say "really?" and thats what got to me, i couldnt understand why i would respond like Master its very simple "your a masochist, embrace it"....well yeah i need more explanation than that!

And this is where i struggled, shouldnt masochists enjoy it on every level?  now im not saying i dont, i enjoy many elements of s/m but for sure there are bits and pieces i really dislike, particular implements, when im really not in the mood....and the bummer of all this is, its those times im even more bloody turned on down there!

As a sadist he loves it, most especially when the bitch down there is soaking and yet im crying, screaming, begging for him to stop, and he would and still does taunt me as i orgasm from the torment my body is experiencing "oh I think your liking this too much bitch" no, no im not, i cant help it, its like my pussy is detached from me, has a mind of her own..she is loving it but im not.

Now, a few years on, im more accepting of it, cant say i always like it when she betrays me, but i have learnt to embrace my masochism, i do find it perhaps a little disturbing that i have these images in my head, nasty, sadistic ones, and slowly over time he pulls these thoughts out of my head and sometimes makes them reality, he loves that i have this devious mind.

Its a hard concept to explain, especially when i can outright state that im not enjoying something and want it to stop...and yet in another breath state that i loved it.

There are times that in those moments i do not like it, and i do want it to stop, its horrid, there has been perhaps a handful of times where afterwards i have just wanted to curl up and be left alone because in that moment i hate him, i hate that he could do this to me.

But what im really hating and having conflict with is that i know should these times not happen again i would miss them because in fact i do enjoy them on some levels...i love the fear, the taunting, the struggling, i just cant reason, face and admit these facts at the time.

So its easier to deflect blame onto him, its his fault, he has made me like this, he does this to me, i dont have a choice etc etc......its that or questioning myself, am i sick, twisted, what sort of person am i that enjoys having these horrid things done to me!

Reality is though, although he is a sadist he would not enjoy inflicting pain on a submissive that didnt desire it on any level, he knows i do even though i may protest at times, so its simpler not to overthink it, but embrace it, him and my masochism.

Its just the way i am.

Monday, 21 October 2013

Mr Grumpy

He is.

And im little miss learntokeepyourmouthshut  ...i do think that would make a great new character to add to the series.....and i would be the perfect person to model it on.

When i said many, many posts back about how keeping a blog, and having your Dom read it is a positive thing, coz its a good way of getting in ones head.....i lied.

Ok, so technically its a good thing, until you write something that they read (previous post) and they are in a grumpy mood and pick it apart...reading more into it than you meant.....and Master thats my job!

So he says on Sunday, out of the blue "for every pinprick that goes into the plug, 100 needles will be going into your cunt and tits"  umm pause, and rewind.....i said and i quote "i have been thinking...." its like i think about having a threesome with Johnny Depp and Brad Pitt doesnt mean im going to (i can fantasise though).

Now one would think at this point i would shut my mouth and let it go.....well yeah but i was tetchy from not enough sleep and before my brain engaged i replied "dont think that many needles will fit so ok, cant be that bad"  oh dear, oooh fuckety roo, that didnt go down too well at all......lesson here folks (well for me) when ones Dom is clearly not in a good mood, they are not going to take to well to smart ass comments, plus when ones Dom is a sadist it is most definitley not a good idea to suggest anything that they will take as a challenge.

Within 5 mins, after quickly assessing he wasnt seeing the funny side, i apologise for provoking him, but too damn late, "Ok, we'll find out how bad it can be" he states.

So sometimes i moan about his work, he sometimes got a lot of work on and is really not complaining now...busy is good, busier the better..equates to being tired and not up to much!

Im shitting myself (not literally, you know, but yeah you know what i mean, i hope)

but there is also this part of me that is excited...namely that part between my legs.

Sunday, 20 October 2013

1am rambles

Well whilst the rest of the house are snoring their heads off, i have crept out of bed, i cant sleep, tried reading in bed but that didnt work, so i figured i may as well come on here and ramble, so apologies if no sense can be made of this at all...coz it is rambles.

I will get around to replying to comments on the last few posts....when im more 'with it'.....ok lets just go with when im properly awake as im not sure im ever really 'with it'....according to my darling children that is.

I went back to that therapist, to cut a long story short i wont be going back to see her again, we just clashed, i did offer anonymous (from a previous post) the job but i didnt get a response, so its back to the drawing board.

I asked Master if he was aware that the more women orgasm the more adventurous it makes them in bed, all the while hiding my crossed fingers in hope he wouldnt ask for the proof to back this claim up...he didnt, just replied "so does a good beating"....(i did make it up off the top off my head....hey im desperate!)

I think he needs to work on his PC (political correctness), clearly he saw my motive, that i was hoping for not allowed to ask, its a case of if he chooses to allow me to orgasm or not.......its been a not for a while!

On a more positive note, i asked him if i could have my labia pierced (totally lil's fault for putting this back in my head again...its been on my mind since she did a post about piercing a while back) and this time i got a "find out what is around, and I will consider it" thats i guess its actually thankyou lil for making me think about it and bringing it up.

Im having a recurring thought of putting pin pricks in the inflatable butt plug (not the first time i have had these thoughts) but its weighing up the consequences if i not sure he would see the funny side.....i do!

Had friends around for lunch today, got a bit carried away with the wine consumption, and the rich chocolate cake for dessert, blood sugar level through the roof, got a right telling off/lecture, made worse because i thought i had enough insulin to see me through to Monday, i havent.......tomorrow will be a visit to the hospital to get an emergency prescription from a doctor.

Still wide awake, going to see what shit is on late night tv.

Friday, 18 October 2013

Fantasise, experiment and experience

 "I want him to be sadistic, he isnt he doesnt like hurting me, he is dominant enough but I want more, how can you make them sadists, we are both new to this?"

I did chuckle at this sentence, no offence, it made me think of baking cakes and seeking out the perfect recipe to get the best results!....yeah i know i dont understand the way my head works either.

I think this is about compatibility and determining how important it is to you, i met my Master through a bdsm website so you sort of got the bare details upfront, so for example he clearly stated that he was a sadist so i think its reasonable to say that a submissive who did not enjoy pain and had no desire to try it, would pass on by, i wanted to explore s/m so he appealed to me.....was way more than i anticipated...but thats a whole other story lol

However, im assuming, please correct me if im wrong that this is an already established relationship before exploring ttwd, in which case the circumstances would be different.

Speaking from my own experience, when i got with my Master my experience was very limited compared to his, so its difficult to actually determine what i liked or didnt like because i simply didnt know, yes i could say what didnt appeal to me and what did, but mostly it was a lot of curiosity.

In the beginning we worked around what i knew i enjoyed , what i was curious about, talked about fantasies i had etc, basically giving me the chance, to experience and this opened up more curiosities and well as time went on i became more at ease and even loved what i once was fearful of, and sure i wouldnt enjoy.

In your shoes, i think i would be inclined to go at this from the same way, talk about what you both enjoy, you say he doesnt like to hurt you, but have you put it to him that you enjoy exploring pain, so although it hurts, its processed in a different way.

For example, being a masochist i do respond to pain in a sexual way, i enjoy s/m, but if i stub my toe its not a pain i take any enjoyment pain is variable..if that makes sense.

Its really down to communicating to each other, perhaps the willingness to explore fantasies, role playing...go from there, sometimes we just need bringing out of ourselves what is hidden, for a long time i struggled with my masochism, it just made me uncomfortable realising that i enjoyed being hurt...again thats a whole other story.

However, i do also believe that really you cant make somebody something they are not, not all dominants are sadists and by the same token not all sadists are dominants, so perhaps the biggest question how important it is to both of you, and dealing with it if indeed this is something you cant compromise on.

Tuesday, 15 October 2013

Soggy sheets and well im glad he pushed me here

Not dirty minded people lol

I was lying in the bath, chilling out, searching for something i had wrote in my journal a few months back, and dropped the damn thing in the bath....yes my own fault, i should know better, its not the first time, well not with the journal..but ipod, and a few books have had a soaking before.

I dont think it can be saved, but i have put it in the airing cupboard in hope, i could kick myself really, my journals are important to me, i have kept one on and off (off for many years) since i was 13, my grandmother having bought me my first one for my 13th thinking of buying my daughter her first journal for Christmas, she enjoys writing.

Its odd because when Master set up this blog for me, i wasnt enthusiastic about it, i had my journals, they detailed and do still detail more than what goes in here, so i simply didnt see the point, what was there to gain?

I didnt like the idea of having people know my thoughts, complete strangers getting a glimpse through our windows, i worried about what people might think especially when i first started blogging, and i was conscious of what he would think.....for some reason with the private journals i wasnt concerned in that respect....perhaps its just that this is public.

But im glad he did, for so many reasons, all of you, those i follow, who follow me, the laughs, the support, the discussions that we have had from posts i have written, others have written....the inspiration for ideas, the ideas i dont want him privy to lol

I remember feeling and thinking that this M/s (or ttwd) can be quite lonely especially if one isnt active in a local scene, perhaps lonely isnt the right description, but its restricting in having someone else that you can relate to, that can understand.

Im thinking of this now, because what i was searching for in my journal was something i had written about my reasons for blogging....because i was wanting to give it up, i didnt see the point anymore, i gave good arguments on why i should give up.

Then im reminded of why i actually do blog here, and i have to admit that once again Master knew me better than i knew myself....i needed this and i still do.

Sunday, 13 October 2013

Give me the bottle

Spoonfuls??? no...i have been taking a whole damn bottle daily.

I dunno my mood of late hasnt been that great, been stewing on things, making mountains of molehills, and being a complete bitch...all because i feel wronged/hard done-by and he isnt being fair.

Sometimes i just cant see reason, it takes time for me to get my head adjusted to his reasoning's, and then i get infuriated with him because he cant see my point of view..the irony at the time lost on me that im actually not even prepared to see his.

Then when it does all 'click' usually after a lot of reflection on my part, sometimes i need to get there on my own (with some helpful insights, thank you),  i feel guilty that i have indeed been such a bitch.....its my mouth that gets me in the most trouble, more specifically engaging it before thinking through......spending long periods of time in a would think i would be cured of this.....sometimes i just dont learn the easy way.

Thursday, 10 October 2013

On my soapbox

Many bloggers that i follow have wrote posts at some point touching on the subject of the difference between abuse and D/s, and indeed what could be considered abuse in a D/s relationship, im pretty sure i have wrote about it myself a while back.

I think what is important however to bear in mind when broaching this subject is that often what could be perceived as abusive isnt necessarily the case....just because one might read something that they find disturbing and have the opinion "oh we dont and wouldnt do that!" doesnt mean its abuse!

So when i come across a blog (been browsing blogs i dont follow) that writes an account of what they deem to be an abusive relationship and some of the points they make to emphasise that its abusive behaviour are in fact things that do occur in my pisses me off quite frankly.

I like having my face slapped, it makes me all hot and wet, someone else may not like it, may not even agree with it and thats ok..coz hey we're all different right?

I thrive on being controlled, i need it, perhaps its a level of control someone else might think is too much, think its suffocating, and thats ok coz hey we're all different right?

I absolutely get that sometimes it hard to understand what goes on in other peoples relationships, heck i cant get my head around the concept of 'adult babies' or is it 'littles', i just dont 'get it' and its not for me, but i dont think its abusive, im not going to be writing anytime soon about warning people off that type of relationship or doing those things...because we dont do that!

Off my soapbox.

Wednesday, 9 October 2013

Being grateful

Yes i am so very grateful that he observed "see you can be good" , it took every inch of willpower to keep the sarcastic thought running in my head from spouting out of my mouth, so i gulped down a mug of coffee instead, silently fuming.

Im still fuming, even though he allowed me an orgasm earlier....guess i should be grateful for that as well.

Sometimes i think this whole being good is over-rated....when i am, i shouldnt expect acknowledgement, because well the reward is in knowing that im being pleasing and obedient...but yet when im not good....thats always picked up on and acknowedged.

*sigh* im going to vent my frustration out on cleaning the bathroom.

Tuesday, 8 October 2013

The things we say or dont say

Back to rambling, posting 2 kink sessions on a trot is a rarity for me, in all fairness though they are the exceptions to the rule..sessions like those.....besides the appeal to go into all that isnt there anymore, the blog has sort of moved on.

Its funny how relationships shift, change direction and sometimes it happens without it really being a big deal, its not noticeable rather it just evolves that way naturally.

S/m used to be so very important to me, to both of us, and for sure we both still enjoy it but its not as a big a deal as it used to be, it can be weeks, sometimes much longer before we have a 'heavy' s/m session, although there are moments that yes i do crave a good beating, i dont as much as i used to.

Something he said to me recently bothered me, i was pestering him for a caning, started off hinting to being very blunt and begging outright for one, he quipped "is that all I am to you, someone to hurt you?" ok so i know he said it in jest or at least i hope so, but its played on my mind.

Actually that, what he said hurt me, maybe im just being overly sensitive and doing the usual over analysing, and i know im not one for expressing how i feel especially when it comes to letting him know how i feel about him, i take it for granted that he knows and thats good enough.

But then he isnt actually great at it either, he is quite stoic, he isnt an easy man to get close to.

He can be quite 'cold' in his bluntness, we had been together perhaps a year or so and i recall him making it very clear to me that im his slave first and foremost, not his lover, friend or partner, my main purpose is to be obedient and pleasing..yeah im going to be having that etched on my gravestone!

That harshly put me right in my place, leaving no misunderstanding to where i stood.

I suppose from my point of view i see him as my Master before anything else...but

something shifted with us in the last couple of years, i cant say what exactly, maybe dare i say it we are 'comfortable' with us and how we work.

I do love him very much as a man, i enjoy the kink, but would give it all up tomorrow as long as i had his control...that i freely admit i do need and i know he needs to give it, i also know he loves me too,  we dont say it to each other very often...its just not the way we are.

So dear Master, what you are to me is everything i need and want, always will be.

Monday, 7 October 2013

Captain Hook

Reading over at Misty's blog where the discussion was talking about implements, restraints to buy etc, the anal hook came up.

You only have to type anal hook into google images to see the ways in which it can be used, its great fun when incorporated into a bondage session, i wouldnt say its painful, perhaps uncomfortable, stimulating definitely.

I said i would ponder over writing about a session Master and i had with the hook, so yeah well i will try to give it justice....because i know it can look a bit intimidating but it is really fun...ok that might depend on how you define fun lol

Master had me standing, arms apart and stretched up, my hands secured to a bar on the suspension rig, a spreader bar attached to my ankles, i enjoy this particular form of bondage because im completely exposed to him, vulnerable to whatever he decides to do to me.  He inserted the anal hook (plenty of lube) and threaded rope through the loop at the top of it, tying the other end of the rope to the bar where my hands were the effect is somewhat of being impaled onto it.

I still have some movement, but what movement i can make makes me very aware of the hook, there is no forgetting its there, and its a nice sensation, different to butt plugs, although im struggling to define how.

He starts with a flogger, working it over my body, not overly hard, sensual more than anything, naturally i move my body, aroused, and the instinct is to try to 'fuck' the anal hook, which is near on impossible they way im secured.

Its uncomfortable at first, niggly, and i find the sensation is similar to having an itch that you want to scratch but cant reach it so every movement is torment.

After the flogging he removes the spreader bar from my ankles, so i have more movement, and its an odd feeling because other than my hands being secured above me, its like im balancing/swinging on the anal hook, i can use my movements to manipulate the hook a bit more.

He picks up a whip now, striking me hard on the back, unexpected i jolt forward as much as is possible, but the hook makes it presence very aware now, not painful but niggly enough to make me want to keep as still as i can...its funny how i have gone from wanting movement but not being able to move how i having more movement but trying to keep it steady.

Just to be even more mean, he adds nipple clamps and weights, so now i have even more reason to want to try and keep still, which naturally he is going to ensure thats not going to happen, the whipping continues, im aroused by the sensations of the hook movement and its sort of balancing out between pain/pleasure.

Yeah great fun....hmm been too long since the hook has come out to play...i think im going to have to go do some begging.

Friday, 4 October 2013

The air that i yours

From the draft folder....July 2010

Im naked when he cuffs my hands behind my back, then he puts the full rubber hood on me, encasing me in darkness, just 2 thin nasal tubes to breathe through, he leads me to a chair, legs apart, secures me to it, im nervous, scared, excited.

Whap something strikes my tit, i think the riding crop?  not expecting it, i jolt as much as i can in the restraints, and he starts a pattern, the blows going from one tit to another and it hurts, im trying not to cry out but its too much.

He stops, im panting, trying to keep my breathing regular, its more difficult with this hood because its so restricting just being able to breathe through the nose, he's waiting, i think for me to compose myself, for my breathing to settle down.

His hand grabs my tit, and then there is just this sharp pain as the needle pierces my skin, then another and another..on and on, he pinches my nipples, i know whats coming, im not keen on needles in my nipples, my breathing gets heavier, im whimpering, the hood doesnt make me very clear so im not sure if he can hear me asking, pleading for him not to.

He pushes the needle through and i scream, im starting to panic now, all these senses, the stimulation too much, his hand reaches between my legs, i hear him chuckle...i dripping, he rubs and im so close....just a little bit more..please

But his hand pulls away, i sigh, irritated, and his hand goes to my other nipple, i can do this, well i dont have a choice, through the needle goes, i scream again, surely he will give me release now!

I cant breath, he has grabbed the nasal tubes, squeezing them, his other hand between my legs, he lets go of the tubes, i let out a breath before he squeezes them again, release, squeeze, rubbing over and over before i climax.

He removes the hood, i look down, the needles look so good, especially the blood, god i love the blood, especially as he removes them and it trickles down, i prefer to remove them just more gentle!  plus i do get a kick out of it....its almost as good as when they go in.

When they are removed he stands, his cock thrusts into my mouth, eagerly i lick, im ready to cum again, im struggling to take it all, but he isnt concerned, even when im pretty sure im going to be sick, im really not getting this deepthroating to come together....but im working on it.....he pulls out, im pretty sure i dont look a pretty sight, drooling, coughing and spluttering before he rams it back in, his cum shooting down my throat.

Yeah i think i could get to like breath play.


Tuesday, 1 October 2013

Being obedient and pleasing.

Those are his expectations of me, they always have been from day one, they are the embodiment of which everything else is based around in my submission to him, and i really do try to focus on this, especially when i struggle....and as much as i dont like to admit it when something is not going the way i want or think it should be.

Lil's post got me thinking , triggered by the thought of how one adjusts to submitting to our Dominants, how one adapts to our idea of being submissive and submitting to them when it isnt in align with what they want and expect.

I would like to say nearly 8 years on from being with Master im well past this and well adjusted, not balking at his instructions, not seeking loopholes to get out of something i dont want to do etc but well i would be deluding myself.

Today is a prime example he said "I think you need more pumps" in respect of the inflatable butt plug (which is inserted every day) my logic is....

i chose to interpret this as not being an actual order or instruction, he is merely stating what he thinks, so therefore its not something i have to comply i wont...thats my train of thought at that time.

But i would be failing at 'being pleasing' , deep down i know this....oh who am i trying to kid..not deep down..damn it yes i know it, but there is that part of me still that on occasion will look for a loophole..and i saw one in this situation, i could argue that he wasnt "I think" isnt a "I want you to....." is it?

Oh and i know him well enough by now to know his response without the need for him to say it....he will point out that my focus was on myself, because i didnt want anymore pumps because i dont like it.  So although technically i wouldnt be specifically disobeying him i wouldnt be pleasing him either, i would be pleasing myself and attempting to manipulate the situation to my advantage.

It never ends well, i certainly dont get any sense of victory out of this behaviour  so one would think...well why the bloody hell do it then? because one thing i do know (not think) is that the man just doesnt allow me to get away with it, he is strict and unyielding...and this is what i craved, wanted all those years ago.

Its what i got.

Which is all very good..until moments when i dont want it..but it is simply the way it is.